separate from throwing it. 90% of the potential interactivity of a grenade is collapsed when it explodes
in a game where you can throw a grenade without pulling the pin
-force enemies to break cover, unaware grenade is not live
-dialogue opportunities when they realise
-a free “throw distraction” verb without adding a system
-shootable non-live grenade doubles as remote bomb
-can throw one in somebody’s face, stunning and freakin’ em out
-share grenades with pals
-risk/reward, enemies can pick em up. “hey free grenade”
-enemies approach non-exploded thrown grenades tentatively, because throwing a non-live grenade is a weird thing to do. what if it’s just defective
-if you do this too much they start expecting it and getting cocky about your grenades, with hilarious consequences
as long as i am only throwing a grenade to flush somebody out of cover, why waste it. foolishness
in reply to @joewintergreen’s post:
Given we live in a world with limited buttons on a controller (and even on a keyboard, I’d rather not aggravate my RSI) I think the solution to this was found and it’s just… grenades are one thing and remote detonation mines (or whatever) are another. That way you can throw a claymore or whatever, have it not go off, and then pop it at your leisure (or pick it back up again later) while also having the convenience of a grenade that is a simple “throw and blow” interaction.
Counterpoint: That’s bad
Then again, alt fire is a thing, and for grenades the secondary fire button could well be pulling the pin (instead of switching between normal grenade and explode on impact grenade, or nothing at all)
Maybe, but I do like games where the grenade alt fire is some sort of change in throw distance. I think Half-Life 2 does this? Where primary is a long throw and secondary is a shorter range underhand toss.
Hmm is it? I don’t remember, but TBH I don’t use grenades much in games.
You could use something like “press primary fire longer to throw further”. Some games (Quake 2?) use “press fire longer to cook the grenade”, but the cooking mechanic would be waiting to throw after pulling the pin, so that could work
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1129310/Receiver_2/ but with grenades and hilarity rather than turrets killing you from bs hiding spots
Cultic does a few of these with its dynamite bundles! Civvie demonstrates them @2:30: https://youtu.be/O4ZK8_XAeXM&t=150, but to summarize, dynamite can be separately lit (RMB) or thrown (LMB, hold to throw farther), quickly lit and thrown at full force (hold RMB), lit and broken into individual sticks of dynamite (MMB) that split apart when thrown, or lit and strapped to a molotov (MMB while holding a molotov)
You can shoot the unlit bundles after throwing them, of course, which is extremely fun. Helping this is the fact that pressing Z will let you quickly toss an unlit bundle with your off hand, without needing to equip the dynamite
Enemies can then pick up, throw, deflect, or shoot thrown dynamite, but that’s pretty much the extent of their interactions with it beyond getting blown to bits, afaik
I’ve always wished you could knock enemies out by chucking a grenade at their head in Dishonored 2 like you can with bottles and stuff, but for some reason you just can’t
seems like something there is no good reason for, i bet raf would have liked that
like especially if it still explodes, just not from hitting the guy. it knocks him out and then blows him up
I think the technical reason is that you can usually only throw breakable stuff, and the breaking is how the game registers a knockout.
The only exception I’m aware of besides grenades is body parts, which are also unable to knock people out. But now that I’m thinking about it you should totally be able to knock a guy out by tossing a disembodied head at him
a game i worked on, Weird West, did some of this actually – i deliberately overcomplicated the dynamite. eg if it’s lit, it will douse if the lit part of the fuse gets wet. if it falls partly in water, it’s still gonna blow if the fuse is dry down to the stick. doesn’t matter who threw it
so if you throw dynamite in the rain it ends up being inert most times unless you shoot it
Pedantically, all the pin does is keep the handle on. It’s the handle flying off that starts the timer (and modern grenades also have a secondary safety clip). If you don’t let go of the handle, you can put the pin back in again (though with some this is quite difficult). So if you want to “cook” a grenade before throwing, you need a button to pull the pin AND then a button to let the handle fly off THEN you cook it, THEN you throw it.
This is getting as complex as some of the manipulation models in Receiver – which I love, BTW, but…
Anyway, it means that “enemies approach non-exploded thrown grenades tentatively” – they’ll be able to see it’s still got a handle on it.
Fun fact – RPG7s also have a pin you have to pull out of the nose of the warhead to make it live. But there are multiple videos of people forgetting to do this before they fire. Oh it’ll fire just fine! Won’t do much when it arrives of course.
So if you want to “cook” a grenade before throwing, you need a button to pull the pin AND then a button to let the handle fly off THEN you cook it, THEN you throw it.
Maybe automatically letting go of the handle when pulling the pin would be acceptable in a game, there probably isn’t much reason to put the pin back in 😉
(then again, you could pull the pin when you think you’re about to be fragged, so enemies looting your body, or at least your loot, get blown up – and if you survive after you put it back in.. but not sure that feature is worth requiring a third button)
Oh it’ll fire just fine! Won’t do much when it arrives of course.
But it could knock someone out, right? Like a flying fist of steel!
Fun fact: In German rocket-launchers are also called “Panzerfaust” – “tank fist” (or maybe “armor fist”? “Panzer” can be a tank or the shell of a turtle or similar, and derived from that, armor)
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